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#421765 - 08/31/07 12:18 PM
PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
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packman
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The Prince CD catalog is deleted. Is he taking his masters elsewhere, or is Rhino prepping a remasters program? Anyone know the status of this product?
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#421778 - 08/31/07 12:46 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: packman]
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rope_burn
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Post-WB catalogue??
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#421791 - 08/31/07 01:16 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: rope_burn]
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packman
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The Warner Bros. stuff, such as "Purple Rain" etc. Sorry for not specifying in my earlier post.
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#421801 - 08/31/07 01:34 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: packman]
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Mixfixer
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Deleted from where? I-Tunes, retail stores, or what?
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#421802 - 08/31/07 01:35 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: packman]
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rope_burn
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I just noticed that the Amazon used cd prices for Gold Exp, Crystal Ball/Black Album(1994)are unusually high for Prince.
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#421803 - 08/31/07 01:36 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: Mixfixer]
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packman
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Catalog CDs, meaning physical product. Not being shipped by WEA.
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#421813 - 08/31/07 01:50 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: Seijn St. Croix]
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dms8993
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Where did you get this info?? I bet they are just remastering it...that old stuff like Purple Rain and 1999 has needed it for a long time now...
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#421828 - 08/31/07 02:05 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: dms8993]
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packman
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WEA customer service confirmed that the product is cutout.
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#421829 - 08/31/07 02:06 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: packman]
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Fauxfan
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I just checked Amazon, and most of his WBR albums are in print and in stock. I know there are certain titles that reverted back to him ("The Gold Experience," for example), but all the key albums are available.
What's your point?
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#421834 - 08/31/07 02:14 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: Fauxfan]
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ginchopolis
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I just checked Amazon, and most of his WBR albums are in print and in stock. I know there are certain titles that reverted back to him ("The Gold Experience," for example), but all the key albums are available.
What's your point?
Amazon is not WEA. If Amazon has stock, they can sell it. If it's OOP, Amazon can't restock it. so they will no longer offer it once they are out and can't get anymore.
If WEA has confirmed the product is cut-out - it's cut-out. The point is that once the existing stock is gone - it's gone.
Pretty big deal when you think about it. How many copies of Purple Rain scan each week?...
And, I don't believe any of Prince's WEA material reverted back to him. I believe he only controls everything from Emancipation onward.
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#421864 - 08/31/07 03:16 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: ginchopolis]
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dannya
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This should get interesting. Prince claims that while Warners owns the original masters, any "re-master" becomes a NEW master which would belong to him. Which is probably why his best work still sounds so bad on CD. Wonder if they're discontinuing them to force him to the bargaining table for deluxe editions, etc. Because I'm betting even though they have the masters, he has the multitracks tucked away.
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#421867 - 08/31/07 03:18 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: ginchopolis]
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dannya
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<<And, I don't believe any of Prince's WEA material reverted back to him. I believe he only controls everything from Emancipation onward. >>
how does that work for unreleased songs recorded during the WEA era? Songs like Dream Factory turned up on later compilations.
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#421870 - 08/31/07 03:23 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: dannya]
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ginchopolis
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<<And, I don't believe any of Prince's WEA material reverted back to him. I believe he only controls everything from Emancipation onward. >>
how does that work for unreleased songs recorded during the WEA era? Songs like Dream Factory turned up on later compilations.
I've never seen the contracts, so it's possible he "delivered" completed masters. He was pretty savvy from the very beginning...
Thing is, can Prince afford the hit in royalties from having all these records out of print? It's not like he's very liquid at this point, is he?
edit: Dream Factory info
Edited by ginchopolis (08/31/07 03:24 PM)
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#421873 - 08/31/07 03:26 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: ginchopolis]
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uberman
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I better go to Bestbuy and get Dirty Mind while they still have it...
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#421877 - 08/31/07 03:33 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: dannya]
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Seijn St. Croix
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Because I'm betting even though they have the masters, he has the multitracks tucked away.
Ding ding ding!!!
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#421878 - 08/31/07 03:36 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: Seijn St. Croix]
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ginchopolis
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Because I'm betting even though they have the masters, he has the multitracks tucked away. Ding ding ding!!!
BUT - you don't need multis for a "remaster".
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#421886 - 08/31/07 03:55 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: ginchopolis]
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dannya
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<<Thing is, can Prince afford the hit in royalties from having all these records out of print? It's not like he's very liquid at this point, is he?>>
with the biggest tour of '04, the hottest ticket in London plus those Roosevelt shows I'm betting he's got a bit of a jingle in his pockets. Plus making supersized royalties on everything he does control...
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#421888 - 08/31/07 04:03 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: dannya]
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ginchopolis
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<<Thing is, can Prince afford the hit in royalties from having all these records out of print? It's not like he's very liquid at this point, is he?>>
with the biggest tour of '04, the hottest ticket in London plus those Roosevelt shows I'm betting he's got a bit of a jingle in his pockets. Plus making supersized royalties on everything he does control...
How much do you think he lost in 3121 in Vegas? How much in the red was he before the '04 tour? He's given away 2/3 of the records he's "sold" in the last few years. Hasn't Paisely Park been in a dire financial state for years?
Just sayin', he may have some jingle currently, but credit usually carries a pretty high interest rate. And, I think he was swipin the card all through the '90's and into this decade.
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#421895 - 08/31/07 04:48 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: packman]
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allTHEhits
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I will tell you exactly what I heard at dinner this week in LA. 
Yes, WEA has deleted the Prince catalog, and it will shortly be available from another source - the exact same CDs - except not from WEA. And, I am told it will come as a surprise to many.
I wasn't told all the details becuase there was not enough wine consumed...BUT, trust me on this one. This little lady who spilled the beans knows her stuff... 
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#421903 - 08/31/07 05:02 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: allTHEhits]
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Darren
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I heard rumblings of a deal with Hear Music. Dismissed it as ludicrous, but now hearing that the WEA catalog is being swept off the market, kinda makes me go hmmm.
If true, its a coup for Hear Music, although still pretty racy for that particular demographic (in my opinion, that is).
Prince made heavy cash in Vegas. Nice chunk up front, 75% of box office, 50% of merch. Rio hippened (is that even a word?) up their image considerably, got a ton of press.
Everyone walked away happy.
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#421904 - 08/31/07 05:02 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: allTHEhits]
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scratchingpost
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Following Joni to Starbucks?
If only they'd sell a banded version of Lovesexy...
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#421905 - 08/31/07 05:03 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: allTHEhits]
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myworld
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Yes, WEA has deleted the Prince catalog, and it will shortly be available from another source - the exact same CDs - except not from WEA. And, I am told it will come as a surprise to many.
This could be interesting... if all the catalog stuff is deleted and going with him does this include the side projects too (ie. Sheila E's the glamorous life and the first 3 The Time projects, which are still in print)? if the side projects come back into print (ie Apples and Vanity 6, The Family)
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#421907 - 08/31/07 05:04 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: scratchingpost]
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myworld
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Following Joni to Starbucks?
If only they'd sell a banded version of Lovesexy...
He passed on the Starbucks deal with the current project and I doubt he will backtrack to them. Unless they made a really good offer for the catalog.
I have a banned version of Lovesexy from Germany, sometimes it pops up on Ebay...
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#421919 - 08/31/07 05:41 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: myworld]
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powerpoplarry
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Interesting...but I would only buy REMASTERS...his Warner catalogue sounds horrendous on CD, and the original CD packages are blah...digipacks, remasters, bonus tracks, planned albums that never came to be like "Dream Factory" and the original "Crystal Ball", the Camille project, the Black album, etc...
As much as many think "Purple Rain" is his best work, I disagree...while it is great, I prefer "1999", "Dirty Mind", "Lovesexy", "Parade", even "Emancipation", "Around The World In A Day" and "The Gold Experience". I like his new album "Planet Earth" a lot too...not as much as "Purple Rain", but more than "3121" and "Musicology".
This should get REALLY interesting...if actual multitrack REMASTERS (ie NEW masters) are tucked away in Paisley Park somewhere, and Warner never owned rights to remasters (not rerecordings)...he must have made a deal with someone else and Warner to delete the old crappy ones, so better ones can come out somewhere else...woah, this IS a huge deal, absolutely...
So that "Ultimate Prince" 2CD is gone as well??? It was cool but a boxset is necessary, besides fresh remasters of his catalogue, with 12" versions, full-length 12" B-sides, side projects, etc...
Edited by powerpoplarry (08/31/07 05:49 PM)
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#421922 - 08/31/07 05:41 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: myworld]
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powerpoplarry
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OOPs, sorry, double post...just deleting the 2nd one...
Edited by powerpoplarry (08/31/07 05:43 PM)
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#421926 - 08/31/07 05:50 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: powerpoplarry]
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vizhunary
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PRINCE has always been edgy and seeking different methods to market his music.
He came out of a very controversial Minneapolis music/studio school and was always looking for the different way. Like his Super Bowl performance when it started raining, the odds and timing have always seemed to favor him. It would not surprise me if he did anything deemed anti label or distro. It's his nature and unless he can stamp his own unique personal mark on it he won't do it.
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#421943 - 08/31/07 06:38 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: ]
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Darren
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It saddens me if its actually true, but maybe the hits packages are just selling better than the actual albums and WEA figures, in their infinite bean-counting wisdom, that people just want the hits and nothing even remotely off the beaten path.
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#421963 - 08/31/07 07:08 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: vizhunary]
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ginchopolis
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PRINCE has always been edgy and seeking different methods to market his music.
He came out of a very controversial Minneapolis music/studio school and was always looking for the different way. Like his Super Bowl performance when it started raining, the odds and timing have always seemed to favor him. It would not surprise me if he did anything deemed anti label or distro. It's his nature and unless he can stamp his own unique personal mark on it he won't do it.
How exactly would offering the same exact product be edgy?
And how is putting his "personal mark" on known inferior product a good thing?
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#421965 - 08/31/07 07:19 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: powerpoplarry]
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ginchopolis
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if actual multitrack REMASTERS (ie NEW masters) are tucked away in Paisley Park somewhere, and Warner never owned rights to remasters (not rerecordings)...he must have made a deal with someone else and Warner to delete the old crappy ones, so better ones can come out somewhere else...woah, this IS a huge deal, absolutely...
Again - Multis are not needed for a remaster. Only a remix.
Prince would have delivered a final mix. All that needs to happen is for that tape to be run and captured using today's technology.
To imply that "remastering" creates a new "Master Recording" is ridiculous.
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#422009 - 08/31/07 09:53 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: ginchopolis]
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dannya
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<<Again - Multis are not needed for a remaster. Only a remix.>>
Agreeance, but if I'm prince I'd rather have the multis in hand rather than the masters (though I'm sure he has that as well).
<<To imply that "remastering" creates a new "Master Recording" is ridiculous. >>
agreeance, but that's Prince's argument.
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#422014 - 08/31/07 10:05 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: ginchopolis]
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vizhunary
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PRINCE has always been edgy and seeking different methods to market his music.
He came out of a very controversial Minneapolis music/studio school and was always looking for the different way. Like his Super Bowl performance when it started raining, the odds and timing have always seemed to favor him. It would not surprise me if he did anything deemed anti label or distro. It's his nature and unless he can stamp his own unique personal mark on it he won't do it. How exactly would offering the same exact product be edgy? And how is putting his "personal mark" on known inferior product a good thing?
You're thinking in terms of "hard" product. Prince is a creator-performer. He does not think that way. You're close to answering your own question. Figure it out.
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#422035 - 08/31/07 11:30 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: vizhunary]
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soulsike
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They (WEA) wouldn't be stupid enough to license them outright to Collector's Choice, Collectables, or Wounded Bird, would they?
they've been cutting out and licensing straight reissues of titles to these guys pretty heavy over the last couple years... Brings instant cash to the coffers, and it's not a "remaster" so Prince may be cut out of the equation, but you know Londell's gonna be busy...
Really can't imagine Prince just taking them and reissuing w/o any treatment at all (especially considering his current beliefs, he'd probably want to edit the cusswords out...)...
Why can't he/WEA license them away and let Alan Leeds, Questlove, or, well, me, to handle bonus tracks and double disc versions of these?
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#422071 - 09/01/07 04:59 AM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: ]
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rockwidow
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Why is it that the greatest artists (Prince, Dylan, The Beatles, The Stones. Neil Young, Stevie Wonder, etc) have the least regard for their physical product?
just a guess but . . .
the distribution rights of most of these artists's earlier recordings are not under their legal control (and/or subject to testy past conflicts). so the product is being put out there w/o their hands-on dictation.
look at CCR as another example. it's just easier and more profitable for the owner of the rights to push what is, not what could be. especially when the relationship between artist and the label has ceased. unless the incremental sales gain is enough to justify a capital expense, certain recordings just dont resonate with the owner as a luxury item.
(with Fantasy changing hands, and being more solicitous of John, watch that catalogue undergo future upgrades).
the snobs may care (but start to feel the chisel when Pet Sounds is on its umpteenth special re-release), but the masses dont give it a second thought.
with Dylan, he is about the song, not the sound. has anyone cared less than Bob about sonics over the eons of music?
p.s., remember when Neil predicted the demise of the industry once digi recording onset - more than 2 decades ago?? how prescient, even if he was only thinking about sound recording
technique.
Edited by rockwidow (09/01/07 07:19 AM)
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#422072 - 09/01/07 05:08 AM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: dannya]
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rockwidow
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<<To imply that "remastering" creates a new "Master Recording" is ridiculous. >>
agreeance, but that's Prince's argument.
Prince has often pursued terrible legal strategy. and he
seems not embarassed by it. he tried to rip off his guitar manufacturer, and had his ass handed to him.
regarding Paisley, that place has been scaled way back from its initial ambitions, so it is not as much the white elephant it became when he had expensive staff trying to make a go of it.
two things about Paisley:
1. It's been maintained really well,
2. He could also easily sell the property and clear some bucks, as it is in a very fast growing area in well off SW suburban Minneapolis. But he hasn't.
So there's reason to conclude that Prince still values it, and isn't taking a bath on it.
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#422077 - 09/01/07 06:15 AM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: allTHEhits]
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love2thenines
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I will tell you exactly what I heard at dinner this week in LA. Yes, WEA has deleted the Prince catalog, and it will shortly be available from another source - the exact same CDs - except not from WEA. And, I am told it will come as a surprise to many.
FIRST HELLO TO ALL!
.....what is the interest for a re-issue of EXACT SAME CDS...as a Fan i don't see anything INTERRESTING....or maybe some details are out of my mind....Do u have further details from your sources?
Thanx a lot
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#422101 - 09/01/07 10:40 AM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: rockwidow]
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dannya
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<<Why is it that the greatest artists (Prince, Dylan, The Beatles, The Stones. Neil Young, Stevie Wonder, etc) have the least regard for their physical product?>>
I wouldn't put Neil Young in there, who kept many discs from going to CD because he was unhappy with the quality and who has been working on Archives for years. Dylan's catalog also got a major SACD upgrade, as did the Stones'. And CCR was a matter of Fantasy flogging the same material over and over, but it all got a great remastering in the box set a few years back along with a separate Steve Hoffman remastering for SACD.
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#422133 - 09/01/07 01:56 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: dannya]
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rockwidow
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CCR got a great remastering in the box set a few years back along with a separate Steve Hoffman remastering for SACD.
now that's news for the inattentive. thanks for that.
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#422186 - 09/01/07 06:48 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: love2thenines]
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allTHEhits
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Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 398
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It was relayed as merely a distribution deal, for the (current) Prince catalog, for one year. Nothing more, nothing less.
She didn;t mention that it was put out for bids and several 'big guys' passed.
The interesting part was the "new" distributor has apparently bought the "rights/inventory" one way/
This has little to do with Prince, the masters, and it;s all about WEA
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#422237 - 09/01/07 11:25 PM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: allTHEhits]
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dms8993
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Gosh, I wanna know the whole story...and also exactly which CDs have been deleted...all of them I'm assuming?
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#422258 - 09/02/07 03:13 AM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: dms8993]
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overpants
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Assumption would be that they are going to be "boxed & deluxed" by Rhino. Maximizing catalog assets, I think they call it. Remember that $10 Purple Rain, well it's $15 now, now being November.
Don't know, but have seen it before, enjoy the Zeppelin push as well, around the "new" hits collection.
Over
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#422277 - 09/02/07 08:00 AM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: powerpoplarry]
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myworld
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Registered: 02/24/04
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planned albums that never came to be like "Dream Factory" and the original "Crystal Ball", the Camille project, the Black album, etc...
The Black Album came out for a period of time... its been out of print... Those Camille tracks came out in various form from B sides to Sign O The Times
_________________________
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#422526 - 09/03/07 10:27 AM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: myworld]
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streetlight
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Who cares! It's all online already!
Try to delete this, "Prince"!
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#422530 - 09/03/07 10:47 AM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: myworld]
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dannya
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Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 8082
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planned albums that never came to be like "Dream Factory" and the original "Crystal Ball", the Camille project, the Black album, etc...
The Black Album came out for a period of time... its been out of print... Those Camille tracks came out in various form from B sides to Sign O The Times
Camille's "Rebirth of the Flesh" never came out, and the mixes were different on some of the other songs, but it's all easily findable...
_________________________
Life is simple / or it's impossible -- Paul Westerberg
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#422536 - 09/03/07 11:08 AM
Re: PRINCE catalog CDs are deleted - WTF
[Re: dannya]
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Seijn St. Croix
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Registered: 06/30/00
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There's so much stuff in those vaults its maddening to try and comprehend why he just sits on it. I know for a fact that in a lot of cases there's artwork, photography, in some cases VIDEO's and all kinds of schwag....just lying around. He was very busy up at Paisley Park. Prince could set up his own i-tunes branch put out a BUNCH of this stuff as just pseudonyms/alter ego type vanity projects and just his fan base ALONE would gobble this stuff up. But it has to be the cream of the crop stuff. And there's PLENTY of that.
Someone with a good ear and access to his catalog could make that man a kings ransom. Someone with an appreciation for his catalog but gets music today. And in a total fantasy land he'd approve it all and again make a fortune.
He's a modern day Willy Wonka. I'd kill for THAT gold ticket.
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